Are republicans stupid or evil?

[RIVERS]

One of the main reasons I dislike the conservative movement is my belief that they want nothing more than to keep the honorable, hard-working citizens up to their necks in debt, feeling obligated to a bunch of rich, powerful, money changers who do nothing more than use the working man's labor and their money, to make themselves rich.  They say they are the ones who are providing jobs, so they make the rules.  These people borrow money from the working people's bank accounts, form companies that have no regard for the dignity or comfort of their employees, and exploit them into making themselves rich and using other's labor and money to do so.  You are just as important as these slugs.  Why do they live in gated communities in fine homes while their emplyees live in trailers and need the gov't to subsidize their existance?  Wake up people, it isn't the unions who are raping this country.  It's the corporations.  Nowhere in the world is there as much disparity between the upper management and the workers than in the US.  Why should we fight to keep our children in the trailer parks and ourselves on the edge of poverty?  The Republicans preach that we should be happy with the crumbs corporate America gives us.  We should tell them they should appreciate what we do to keep them rich.  We deserve a piece of the pie too.  The economic problems, healthcare crisis, and poor education system are all prime examples that the working class aren't overpaid, they are underpaid.  That's why Bush handed-out those stimulous checks.  He wanted to borrow more from us to give us some of our money to spend.  If we weren't paying so much for healthcare, taxes for the war machine and corporations, we wouldn't be in a recession or need stimulous checks.

I don't have a problem with Unions. I have a problem with/when Unions become too powerful due concessions that are made to their parasitic ways. (Calm down).

See, Unions are good...except when they start bleeding an owner and the Company they work for. MLB is a great example...but even more so is the current labor unions that are bleeding the Towns and States across this Country to the point of the verge of bankruptcy.

Enough of this crap, State, Federal and Municipal pension deals are rediculous. Servicing these 'self-serving' deals is making working folks that you speak of work for the city or State pension fund.

They work for ME. I don't need my tax-monies paying $50,0000 pensions to a freaking ex-mail carrier or guy who stood around a ditch with a shovel in his hand for 30 years, I'm sorry.

[Poe]

I don't have a problem with Unions. I have a problem with/when Unions become too powerful due concessions that are made to their parasitic ways. (Calm down).

See, Unions are good...except when they start bleeding an owner and the Company they work for. MLB is a great example...but even more so is the current labor unions that are bleeding the Towns and States across this Country to the point of the verge of bankruptcy.

Enough of this crap, State, Federal and Municipal pension deals are rediculous. Servicing these 'self-serving' deals is making working folks that you speak of work for the city or State pension fund.

They work for ME. I don't need my tax-monies paying $50,0000 pensions to a freaking ex-mail carrier or guy who stood around a ditch with a shovel in his hand for 30 years, I'm sorry.

I guess you don't like roads and stuff then.

[RIVERS]

I guess you don't like roads and stuff then.

I don't like Government taking all the money from private sector and using it to fund thier employees and pensions.

I don't like a glorified paperboy (mail-man) making $50,000/annul with full benefits and pension.

I don't like all those Billions of 'stimulus dollars' used to hire more Government employees, with no real funds being available to the private sector.

I don't like the fact that there has been a tremendous rise in Federal, State, and Local employment in the past 10 years, with no gain in private sector jobs.

I DESPISE how many municipalities are in serious trouble and will be unable to pay PENSION OBLIGATIONS that were negotiated by conflict of interest city councils.

There are a lot of things I DON'T LIKE.

[Rick]

[American]

I don't like Government taking all the money from private sector and using it to fund thier employees and pensions.

I don't like all those Billions of 'stimulus dollars' used to hire more Government employees, with no real funds being available to the private sector.

I DESPISE how many municipalities are in serious trouble and will be unable to pay PENSION OBLIGATIONS that were negotiated by conflict of interest city councils.

There are a lot of things I DON'T LIKE.

I used to live in Jacksonville, FL and noticed a couple of large construction companies that were union often were awarded contracts for huge projects there.  How can a company that paid union wages and benefits, hired skilled, American craftsmen get these contracts?  Because they didn't pay huge money to the few at the top.  All those union workmen were known to have the skill, safety knowledge, and experience. They kept this money in the local economy, not sending it back to Mexico. If a union worker was hurt, he had insurance to pay medical bills, not be a burden on taxpayer's dime for charity care.  The union workers paid taxes, shopped in local stores, bought cars, appliances, supported schools, and helped the local economy.  That's what a living wage does.  To blame living wages for ruining the economy is like blaming Obama for the BP disaster.  The economy is fucked-up because of mis-management, not because of wages.  When you lower taxes, raise spending, use crony contractors for doing work that is substandard and needs repairing later, and people aren't receiving a decent living wage, then you have the economy we have now.  I'm so sick of hearing about helping the small businessmen.  They are the neo-cons who decry "socialism", but are always wanting a gov't handout.  Our economic problems right now is NOT workers making too much, it's so many not making enough.  Rivs you say you have no problem with unions, then tell us all your problems with unions.  You evidently have been indoctrinated with anti-union bs for a long time.

[CKFresh]

It's quite simple really.

Republicans typically fall into 3 categories:

1) Selfish
2) Ignorant
3) Religious fundamentalists

The selfish are the rich republicans. Many of these people probably realize that the republican platform is harmful to the nation as a whole, but they are more concerned with their personal finances and well-being. "Looking out for number 1," which is understandable, at least to some degree.

The ignorant portion of the party is made up of lower-class Americans who vote on issues like gun rights. They have been brain washed into believing things like Democrats will take their guns. They believe that all welfare recipients are just lazy, and probably black. They vote against their own financial interest in the name of "wedge issues" that really have no bases in reality, or impact on their lives. This crowd is easily swayed by misinformation. This is the Glenn Beck crowd.

The religious group is driven by faith over logic. There is no hope for this group.

Of course there is some crossover among these groups, but the point remains - the vast majority of the republican party can be described by one (or more) of the above.

I've been for a flat tax for a long time.  It's going to take a long time to get Washington to enact it.  They are concerned with the huge number of pencil-pushers who would lose their jobs and all the fat cats who will lost all the unfair dodges they have to avoid payment.  Not only that, but the IRS is by far the world's biggest user of computers.  Michael Dell, HP, and all those people in the computer business are very nervous.

Rick,

The flat tax won't be enacted for two reasons: 1) liberals/progressives generally consider it to be a "regressive" tax system even though it is the very definition of a neutral tax system (which, to them, equates to regressive); and, 2) because the politicians don't want to give up the power manipulation of the tax code gives them. There are some secondary issues that bear on this as well, such as concerns from the housing industry that a flat tax would depress home purchasing and building (as if most people buy homes primarily for the tax break) or that people with larger families or greater non-discretiionary expenses will be unduly hurt if there were no deductions allowed (presuming you mean a flat tax with one  rate for all and no deductions, of course).

[Poe]

Rick,

The flat tax won't be enacted for two reasons: 1) liberals/progressives generally consider it to be a "regressive" tax system even though it is the very definition of a neutral tax system (which, to them, equates to regressive); and, 2) because the politicians don't want to give up the power manipulation of the tax code gives them. There are some secondary issues that bear on this as well, such as concerns from the housing industry that a flat tax would depress home purchasing and building (as if most people buy homes primarily for the tax break) or that people with larger families or greater non-discretiionary expenses will be unduly hurt if there were no deductions allowed (presuming you mean a flat tax with one  rate for all and no deductions, of course).

This is another of those things like CK mentioned above.  Rick is a liberal, I am a liberal and we are both FOR a flat tax.  You conservatives seem to like to push all of those things you don't want to own on to us.  I am a pro flat tax, pro 2nd Amendment, anti Republican liberal Democrat.

There would have to be exemptions as there would be for any tax.  Social classes aside, would you want the federal government to pay federal sales tax and create a nice big circle of bureaucracy?

[Rick]

[no]

Rick,

The flat tax won't be enacted for two reasons: 1) liberals/progressives generally consider it to be a "regressive" tax system even though it is the very definition of a neutral tax system (which, to them, equates to regressive); and, 2) because the politicians don't want to give up the power manipulation of the tax code gives them. There are some secondary issues that bear on this as well, such as concerns from the housing industry that a flat tax would depress home purchasing and building (as if most people buy homes primarily for the tax break) or that people with larger families or greater non-discretiionary expenses will be unduly hurt if there were no deductions allowed (presuming you mean a flat tax with one  rate for all and no deductions, of course).

ren, I don't agree that liberals are against a flat tax.  There probably are some liberals that are against the flat tax, as there are probably conservatives who are for it.  I like to think I have an unbiased viewpoint on most issues.  I've learned a lot in my advanced age, and have changed my mind on many things.  I am probably a liberal on most contentious issues, but I am a gun owner.  I don't think Obama will try to take anyone's guns.  I also agree with just about everything CK said about Repubs in his post @ 11:15 am.  I really agree with the part where they know that what they believe in, or back, is bad for the country as a whole, but it's good for them personally.  They are the party of no.  They are against everything that makes sense.  They vote against things they were for one moment, just because the Dems voted for it too.  They have the, let's call them the uninformed, believing that they are just like them.  Fighters of gov't intervention, taxes, big gov't, pro-business, pro patriot, etc.  They are the ultimate propagandists.  They can make a slacker no-show Air National Guard pilot look like a hero, and a Vietnam vet seem like an asshole for accepting a Purple Heart.  They can make people wearing teabags dangling from straw hats, protest against healthcare for our citizens as being too costly, while defending spending billions on searches for WMDs on the words of paid and confirmed liars.  They are against the UN on one hand, but cite them as inspiration for deeds later condemned by the UN.  They say Obama is taking our freedoms away, but are all for sending trillions of dollars over time to Israel, which used Made in the USA missiles, bombs, and weaponry to occupy, kill, maim, torture, and deny any humanity to, millions of people.  I would ask everyone who reads to a little research.  Look at the states of this country.  Look at those who went Democratic in the last few elections, and those who voted Repub.  Would you rather send you kids to school in Oregon or Mississippi?  Which states have the highest infant mortality, most people on death row, most teen pregnancies, most people living in povery, highest dropout rate?  I'd look at what these people are selling before I signup to be a moron.

[RIVERS]

[American]

I used to live in Jacksonville, FL and noticed a couple of large construction companies that were union often were awarded contracts for huge projects there.  How can a company that paid union wages and benefits, hired skilled, American craftsmen get these contracts?  Because they didn't pay huge money to the few at the top.  All those union workmen were known to have the skill, safety knowledge, and experience. They kept this money in the local economy, not sending it back to Mexico. If a union worker was hurt, he had insurance to pay medical bills, not be a burden on taxpayer's dime for charity care.  The union workers paid taxes, shopped in local stores, bought cars, appliances, supported schools, and helped the local economy.  That's what a living wage does.  To blame living wages for ruining the economy is like blaming Obama for the BP disaster.  The economy is fucked-up because of mis-management, not because of wages.  When you lower taxes, raise spending, use crony contractors for doing work that is substandard and needs repairing later, and people aren't receiving a decent living wage, then you have the economy we have now.  I'm so sick of hearing about helping the small businessmen.  They are the neo-cons who decry "socialism", but are always wanting a gov't handout.  Our economic problems right now is NOT workers making too much, it's so many not making enough.  Rivs you say you have no problem with unions, then tell us all your problems with unions.  You evidently have been indoctrinated with anti-union bs for a long time.

I guess I've been indoctrinated with what is fair...more than anything else. I have and will not ever hire an Illegal and I pay fair wages (and full-benefits) to employees.


It is not my fault some employers choose to 'cut corners', and hire less desirable.

At the same time I do think that some Union organizations have themselves to blame...what WAS a fight for fair wages and benefits, has turned into a nearly parasitic money and benefit grab that defeats the company they are working for....I could cite many examples of Companies going Bankrupt or outsourcing because there employees have been unwilling to make considerations.

Now, in the Government sector it is WAAAAY different, HUGE PROBLEM in that Government Employees NEVER make considerations or adjustments, they just keep grabbing at the dollars because they know the MONEY TAP can never be shut-off. This is bogus.

The right to a fair wage is one thing...willingness to 'take-down' a company or municipality is quite anouther.

[RIVERS]

It's quite simple really.

Republicans typically fall into 3 categories:

1) Selfish
2) Ignorant
3) Religious fundamentalists

The selfish are the rich republicans. Many of these people probably realize that the republican platform is harmful to the nation as a whole, but they are more concerned with their personal finances and well-being. "Looking out for number 1," which is understandable, at least to some degree.

The ignorant portion of the party is made up of lower-class Americans who vote on issues like gun rights. They have been brain washed into believing things like Democrats will take their guns. They believe that all welfare recipients are just lazy, and probably black. They vote against their own financial interest in the name of "wedge issues" that really have no bases in reality, or impact on their lives. This crowd is easily swayed by misinformation. This is the Glenn Beck crowd.

The religious group is driven by faith over logic. There is no hope for this group.

Of course there is some crossover among these groups, but the point remains - the vast majority of the republican party can be described by one (or more) of the above.

None of that is fair to say.

So if someone doesn't believe in your Political Ideology they are "Selfish", "Ignorant" or "Religious fundamentalists"?...Man you got some growing-up to do.

[Blutarsky]

It's quite simple really.

Republicans typically fall into 3 categories:

1) Selfish
2) Ignorant
3) Religious fundamentalists

The selfish are the rich republicans. Many of these people probably realize that the republican platform is harmful to the nation as a whole, but they are more concerned with their personal finances and well-being. "Looking out for number 1," which is understandable, at least to some degree.

The ignorant portion of the party is made up of lower-class Americans who vote on issues like gun rights. They have been brain washed into believing things like Democrats will take their guns. They believe that all welfare recipients are just lazy, and probably black. They vote against their own financial interest in the name of "wedge issues" that really have no bases in reality, or impact on their lives. This crowd is easily swayed by misinformation. This is the Glenn Beck crowd.

The religious group is driven by faith over logic. There is no hope for this group.

Of course there is some crossover among these groups, but the point remains - the vast majority of the republican party can be described by one (or more) of the above.

Haha.  I love sterotypes.   Democrats usually fall into one category.  They're the one's who know what's best for everyone else.  Their motto:  Live, and tell everyone else how to live too. 

[RIVERS]

Rick,

The flat tax won't be enacted for two reasons: 1) liberals/progressives generally consider it to be a "regressive" tax system even though it is the very definition of a neutral tax system (which, to them, equates to regressive); and, 2) because the politicians don't want to give up the power manipulation of the tax code gives them. There are some secondary issues that bear on this as well, such as concerns from the housing industry that a flat tax would depress home purchasing and building (as if most people buy homes primarily for the tax break) or that people with larger families or greater non-discretiionary expenses will be unduly hurt if there were no deductions allowed (presuming you mean a flat tax with one  rate for all and no deductions, of course).

Well...if this "flat tax" would be initiated, I would have some issues with it.

It would be have to implemented on a 'for-need' scale, so as not to 'hurt' folks that use the majority of income for living expense, for example...the tax would not be applicable for food, clothing purchases ( under certain guidelines) , or rent and utilities.

[Rick]

I guess I've been indoctrinated with what is fair...more than anything else. I have and will not ever hire an Illegal and I pay fair wages (and full-benefits) to employees.
The right to a fair wage is one thing...willingness to 'take-down' a company or municipality is quite anouther.

Please name one municipality or company that has been 'taken-down' by a union.  I think you are equating blame with cause.  Whenever a company that is unionized goes down it's so easy to blame unions.  Just look at the not too distant past.  Look at the companies that have failed.  I can't think of a one that was union.  Was Enron union?  What caused them to fail?  Lehman Bros.? Unions?  AIG? Unions?  If you look at most of the companies that have failed, whithout exception bad and top-heavy management were the cause.  I worked for a huge utility company.  For every productive worker, we had 10 people who analyed, audited, made poor decisions, and did nothing to accomplish anything other than justify their existance.  When times get bad it's the people out in the trenches that are blamed for the problems.  The gov't is no difference.  The unionized workers are blamed for everything, while all the crony-hired managers are blameless.  The 14th assistant to the 3rd deputy to the associate director is ok.  The mailman is an overpaid slacker, but some do-nothing pencil pusher with no responsibilities is overlooked.  It all comes down to the old saying-"shit rolls down hill".  The people who blame the rank and file workers for all the problems in our economy have been brain-washed by the same people who tell us that Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, will take away our guns, and is to blame for the Gulf oil disaster.  When I retired I was a manager of 413 mostly union workers.  I know how things work.

[Poe]

Haha.  I love sterotypes.   Democrats usually fall into one category.  They're the one's who know what's best for everyone else.  Their motto:  Live, and tell everyone else how to live too. 

You mean liberals, I think.  But even then it's not true.  It's the right-wing nuts that want to tell people what they can and cannot do.  They are the ones that want adultery to be a crime because it's one of the ten commandments.  They are behind the so-called 'war on drugs' which is actually a war on fiscal responsibility.  I think you have the parties confused.

[CKFresh]

None of that is fair to say.

So if someone doesn't believe in your Political Ideology they are "Selfish", "Ignorant" or "Religious fundamentalists"?...Man you got some growing-up to do.

Nope, there are plenty of people who have different ideologies who are great people, much smarter than I am.

I am talking about the MAJORITY of REPUBLICANS. I'm not talking about "conservatives." I'm not talking about "independents." I'm not talking about anything OTHER than Republicans.

And I didn't even say "all republicans." I am talking about a large portion, or majority, or the people that make up that party.

I know this is a lot for you to follow, but please, try to keep up little boy.

Haha.  I love sterotypes.   Democrats usually fall into one category.  They're the one's who know what's best for everyone else.  Their motto:  Live, and tell everyone else how to live too.  

Yeah, in some ways, Democrats tell people how to live their lives. But don't Republicans to? "Don't smoke weed...don't be gay...don't have abortions...don't kill yourself, even if you are dying and in pain..."

Democrats do similar stuff, but it just seems to make more sense. You know, stuff like, "don't pollute...don't eat fast food all day..."