New law for the illegals?

[navigator17]

 Quite the hub bub over Arizona's new law that local police can request documentation for people suspected of being in the country illegally

Comments?

[AmpleSound]

 Quite the hub bub over Arizona's new law that local police can request documentation for people suspected of being in the country illegally

Comments?

Honestly, I'm all for it!

[CKFresh]

The problem is the language. it gives law enforcement the RIGHT to stop anyone who "looks" like an illegal immigrant...

This basically opens the door for law enforcement to stop anybody with brown skin, or anybody who "dresses" a certain way.

Profiling is always dangerous Personal liberty is at stake here.

I wonder if the Tea Party folk will protest this abuse of power by the Arizona government 

[navigator17]

 I was lead to believe that this law has to work within the frame work of the 4th amendment as it concerns search and seizure, a person would have to be questioned for a traffic stop or something along those lines in order to be questioned about their status

[AmpleSound]

 I was lead to believe that this law has to work within the frame work of the 4th amendment as it concerns search and seizure, a person would have to be questioned for a traffic stop or something along those lines in order to be questioned about their status

I would figure the same, which if they are here illegally doesn't that remove their rights?

[CKFresh]

 I was lead to believe that this law has to work within the frame work of the 4th amendment as it concerns search and seizure, a person would have to be questioned for a traffic stop or something along those lines in order to be questioned about their status

If that's the case, then I have no problem. From what I've read it allows law enforcement to stop anyone based on suspicion of being illegal

[Rick]

I think it's a bad idea, and I wouldn't doubt that it's recinded.  Let's face it-most of the people coming into the US are looking for work.  The only way they stop coming is for the laws pertaining to employing illegals enforced.  I have so many friends in GA and NC who gripe about the illegals adnauseum, but whenever they need someone to do some chores or manual labor, they go looking for some cheap, illegal, labor.  Already Mexico has put out a traveller's warning about going to Arizona.  Mexicans spend billions of dollars each year in AZ.  California is enacting laws forbidding state sponsored travel to AZ, and other states are condemplating the same.  Arizona is cutting off their nose to spite their face.

I was lead to believe that this law has to work within the frame work of the 4th amendment as it concerns search and seizure, a person would have to be questioned for a traffic stop or something along those lines in order to be questioned about their status

The illegal immigrant would be considered "trespassing" in the US, so according to the law he could be stopped on the street if the officer had reasonable suspicion that the person was trespassing. However, "reasonable suspicion" doesn't mean "looks Mexican"; the police still have to abide by a rather stringent ethics code per the 4th Amendment. If the officer uses the law in bad faith or is guilty of harassment, he is still subject to civil suit.

Actually, the new Arizona law is more restrictive than the federal law. Under federal law, officers are allowed to question citizenship of any detainee, as a part of determining that person's identity. Under the Arizona law, the officer is only allowed to question citizenship if he can prove "reasonable suspicion" of illegality.

[Poe]

The illegal immigrant would be considered "trespassing" in the US, so according to the law he could be stopped on the street if the officer had reasonable suspicion that the person was trespassing. However, "reasonable suspicion" doesn't mean "looks Mexican"; the police still have to abide by a rather stringent ethics code per the 4th Amendment. If the officer uses the law in bad faith or is guilty of harassment, he is still subject to civil suit.

Actually, the new Arizona law is more restrictive than the federal law. Under federal law, officers are allowed to question citizenship of any detainee, as a part of determining that person's identity. Under the Arizona law, the officer is only allowed to question citizenship if he can prove "reasonable suspicion" of illegality.

You can ask a person for ID for almost no reason (suspicious behavior).  But that's where it ends.  You have to be in the course of an existing investigation or have provable reason to believe a felony is in progress to ask for anything else.

In some cases, the cops can't act even when they know the person is illegal. Case in point, several years ago an illegal alien killed 2 teenage girls while drunk driving... it was his 3rd DUI, his record showed he was illegal alien, yet he was not charged, deported, turned over to INS, NOTHING.

I'm really confused why you feel an ILLEGAL alien has rights- the only right he has is the opportunity to show he isn't illegal, or maybe to petition for asylum... then deportation...

[Rick]

I believe anyone who  breaks the law and enters into the US illegally should be deported.  I just don't believe the way Arizona is going about it will work.  It makes every brown-skinned person in this country, most legal, a second class citizen.  Think about how you would feel if you were in their situation.  You could be a person who is a 5th generation American, a veteran, maybe even an elected official, on vacation in AZ, stopped and hassled by police for no other reason other than being "Illegal looking".  Being white does not allow us to know what it's like to be in other's shoes.
What needs to be done is prosecuting every person or company that hires illegals to work at their home or business.  When the work dries-up the illegals will stop coming over the border in such large numbers.  If that happens you will see the same people who demand the sealing of our borders to start screaming that the crops can't be harvested, there are no good gardeners, roofers, concrete workers, farm hands, laborers, meat cutters, chicken processers, janitors, hotel and casino housekeepers, etc.  Arizona will surely change this law.

[Poe]

In some cases, the cops can't act even when they know the person is illegal. Case in point, several years ago an illegal alien killed 2 teenage girls while drunk driving... it was his 3rd DUI, his record showed he was illegal alien, yet he was not charged, deported, turned over to INS, NOTHING.

I'm really confused why you feel an ILLEGAL alien has rights- the only right he has is the opportunity to show he isn't illegal, or maybe to petition for asylum... then deportation...

"Four score and seven years ago today, our forefathers founded this great nation on the premise that all men are created equal and have been endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights and that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

I wonder if either Jefferson or Lincoln meant only Americans.

[navigator17]

 I think that Arizona is (like most of the Mexican border states) fed up and overwhelmed with 1..the lack of Help/ control from the Federal Government..and 2. the massive influx of border crossers that are wrecking what is already a fragile economy.

 This may be a "knee jerk" law but I think that they really believed that they needed to try to at least do something about the problem.

We all agree the immigration laws need reform and streamlining...we are all part of the immigration to this country, I'm certainly not against a person coming here to build a better life for their family...but we have to have limits and checks to this process....

[AmpleSound]

"Four score and seven years ago today, our forefathers founded this great nation on the premise that all men are created equal and have been endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights and that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

I wonder if either Jefferson or Lincoln meant only Americans.

Well do you think they meant slaves too?  Obviously Lincoln did, but Jefferson on the other hand?

[Poe]

Well do you think they meant slaves too?  Obviously Lincoln did, but Jefferson on the other hand?

The very reason that Lincoln chose that to paraphrase was to show the inconsistency in Jefferson's logic.

But that is completely beside the point.  We aren't talking about Africans here, we're talking about Hispanics.