Obama Finalizes Health Care, Student Loan reform

[RIVERS]

I've been lucky.  Only had to go to ER twice in my life...both hockey related. 

Hence the 'Toof-less" nickname?

[Blutarsky]

[how simple it would be for those cost to be lowered.]

That's the problem I have with this legislation, it never address the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM. The rising cost of health care. Now I'm happy that folks with with pre-existing conditions MIGHT be covered, i have a problem with the fact it gives 'carte-blanch' to insurers and doctors to continue to costs as they see fit.

It does nothing to save on COSTS, in fact, it will encourage hospitals and insurers to spend even more.

I agree that folks with Platinum care ' (such as myself) have been a drain on the system due to advertised 'designer-drugs' and such.

I' very disappointed that we didn't address the real problem of health care in America, we didn't address costs and how simple it would be for those cost to be lowered.



Booooooooo

The old "take the pain" method.  I like it. 

[RIVERS]

The old "take the pain" method.  I like it. 

Naw, not to sound like Obama, but I really think there is a better solution to the problem. I won't get into it it...but it means bringing cost care down...it means a ban on advertising of drugs for a start. It also means a record keeping system that will save millions because we keep medical records online, rather than paper.

BUT the largest savings would come from MY ban of drug advertising, and the lessening of years drug companies are able to hold 'proprietary' costs on thier product. Drug companies are holding this county hostage...it is BULLSHIT.

The ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM is heath care costs.  THAT'S what needs to be addressed.

[RIVERS]

The old "take the pain" method.  I like it. 

"Lil' Shop of Horrors"

Who was the dentist?...Steve Martin? (or was it Akroid). lol.

This won't hurt a bit. 

[Poe]

President Obama did, in fact, address the rising costs of healthcare.  We all knew coming into the election whatever plan finally got to the table was going to have to set some hard caps.  They knew it too, it's one of the reasons they fought so hard.

Some costs will immediately come down.  If everyone is covered, hospitals will stop being stiffed.  If hospitals are no longer stiffed for 40% of their issued invoices, they can no longer justify charging $10 for a dose of Tylenol to the 60% who do pay their bill.

[RIVERS]

Come on now, 3 BILLION dollars to count heads?. Seems like a mighty big waste of money to me.

Consider this- We all are required to file income taxes each year, no?. The tax forms we submit have our social security #'s (DOB on file) and number of dependants living at home. Why do we not incorporate the Cencus into our income tax filings?. It would be more accurate because it's a yearly data, rather than a 10 year sample and it would save a ton of money. We just add a question or two to the tax form.

Folks working 'under-the-table' would not get counted...so what?, they won't fill-out the Census form either, I say.

Too obvious?

What a major slam dunk.  He passes a healthcare bill and finally punishes banks for tearing the world's economy to shreds.  Good job, Barack.

Please. The world economy was torn apart by a large amount of reckless financial decision-making by a whole lot of people. Did the banks play a part in that? Of course. Are they the sole demons in this morality play? No, by no means; there's plenty of blame to go around. They are simply an easy target because they are, in general, not popular. But the government, politicians from both parties, investors, securities ratings companies, activist groups, and, quite frankly, a significant segment of the population are also to blame.

As for the government takeover of the student loan program "punishing the banks," I doubt the studen loan business is all that lucrative to most banks. I mean, they are getting about 6-7% on loans. That's not bad income, but it's not exactly anything any reasonable person would categorize as profiteering or gouging. The punishment of banks was initiated with the new fees and penalties that were levied on the large banks a few months ago -- even those banks that didn't need, didn't want and didn't *take* any of the bailout money. The takeover of the student-loan program is nothing more than another power-grab by the Administration. Monopolies used to be considered  bad things; guess if it's the government doing the monopolizing it's okay, though, huh? Afterall, look at how well they've run their other monopolies.

[501]

[Would mass suicide affect student loan practices?By J. DeVoyEarlier this week, 60 Minutes tackled the hard issue of strategic mortgage default. In these situations, people capable of paying their mortgages despite being badly upside-down on their homes – owing far more than they’re worth – simply walk away from them. While government loan modification programs are available to those who have lost jobs and suffered other economic hardship, creditors are refusing to offer interest or principal reductions to people who are capable of paying their mortgages. So far, this latter group has been unable to cause any change in public or private policy on loan modifications, despite the group growing by the day.In the 2005 Bankruptcy Code revisions, student loans were made non-dischargable in bankruptcy. Now, as noted in a recent Frontline episode, the government administers all Federal student loans, which were previously available through private banks and lenders. The episode further explains that Federal loans can be attached to wages and tax returns if not paid, and will follow the borrower everywhere… except into the grave. Federal loans are discharged upon death.For graduates returning home to live with their parents, jobless and adrift, one consequence may be depression and long-term psychological effects. Given the above-average cognitive abilities and self-awareness of college graduates, it seems more likely than not that they would suffer these effects more than the average person. In one particularly sad story last year, one attorney committed suicide upon learning of his layoff. Suicide is a serious matter that shatters families, ruining the lives of those left behind, and thus it is not invoked lightly. With graduates from the classes of 2009 and 2010 now entering the worst job market anyone can remember, and competing with people a generation older for entry-level positions, the future clearly is bleak for them. Coupled with a black swan environmental disaster that has profound implications for the long-term cost of oil and the growing sovereign debt default crisis, the makings of a double-dip recession are moving rapidly into place.Even with the benefit of programs like Income-Based Repayment, the interest and principal of student loans will continue to grow for recent graduates. Despite the program’s vaunted 10-year forgiveness feature for government and public interest employment, such jobs are extremely selective or nonexistent as state governments slash and burn various departments with layoffs, furloughs and forced attrition. The social and egoistic cachet conferred by a college degree may also preclude graduates from seeking work in blue-collar or service fields; some may cite the desire to preserve themselves for a “career-track” position, while others’ pride may come in the way of taking a job that doesn’t make use of their credentials. Even for those with the humility to seek whatever employment they can, employers may well reject these applicants for being flight risks destined to bolt for the first superior opportunity, or for lacking the requisite skills for the job.If enough college graduates are pushed to the breaking point and decide life isn’t worth living, will anyone notice? A governmental response assumes its knowledge, which is difficult if surviving family members refuse to talk about what happened and what they know. For some families, this devastation may have already visited home for exactly the reason of crushing, inescapable student loan debt and crushed dreams. But, like a tree falling in the woods, nobody can know a problem exists if it remains a hushed secret — however painful it is to keep.Hopefully the state of education lending will never come to needing reform because of ended lives. There are signs that this is already happening across the country, though, and the trend may only accelerate as economic malaise deepens, parental resources diminish, and opportunities for even the smartest among us become increasingly scarce. Despite the emphasis to attend college from every angle, those who do and have done so are increasingly finding that the credentials they acquired at great expense aren’t as valuable as they were lead to believe. This is the ultimate betrayal: People who are lionized for their accomplishment and knowledge are left to drop out of society in the most irreversible way possible. More immediately, the discharge of these loans upon death affects the CDO-like securities stacked upon them; discharges above those actuarially anticipated when creating the instrument would lead to its unwinding, as well as the derivatives and options resting upon it.As for what these reforms would be, making student loan debt dischargable in bankruptcy wouldn’t solve the whole problem. It would, however, bring about several other realizations. First, the cost of education in America has gotten out of control. Second, the values of a generic college degree are oversold. Additionally, not all institutions or degrees are created equally, and it is absurd that students from elite schools pay the same interest rate – to the extent undergraduates at elite schools have to take loans – as students from less rigorous institutions. The same is true of major selection, as the value provided by a degree in biology or chemistry and the opportunities it provides is markedly different from one in communications, psychology or criminal justice. These would be painful realizations, but ones that do not seem to be arising naturally.However large or insignificant the problem of loan-induced helplessness is, it can’t be ascertained or addressed without ensuring it can be discussed. Despite the shame and stigma people feel for not meeting their financial obligations, or the hurt a family may feel for the senseless loss of a loved one, hiding the experience under a bushel basket ensures that nobody can learn from it, potentially helping others and effecting real change.]

Would mass suicide affect student loan practices?
By J. DeVoy

Earlier this week, 60 Minutes tackled the hard issue of strategic mortgage default.  In these situations, people capable of paying their mortgages despite being badly upside-down on their homes – owing far more than they’re worth – simply walk away from them.  While government loan modification programs are available to those who have lost jobs and suffered other economic hardship, creditors are refusing to offer interest or principal reductions to people who are capable of paying their mortgages.  So far, this latter group has been unable to cause any change in public or private policy on loan modifications, despite the group growing by the day.

In the 2005 Bankruptcy Code revisions, student loans were made non-dischargable in bankruptcy.  Now, as noted in a recent Frontline episode, the government administers all Federal student loans, which were previously available through private banks and lenders.  The episode further explains that Federal loans can be attached to wages and tax returns if not paid, and will follow the borrower everywhere… except into the grave.  Federal loans are discharged upon death.

For graduates returning home to live with their parents, jobless and adrift, one consequence may be depression and long-term psychological effects.  Given the above-average cognitive abilities and self-awareness of college graduates, it seems more likely than not that they would suffer these effects more than the average person.  In one particularly sad story last year, one attorney committed suicide upon learning of his layoff.

Suicide is a serious matter that shatters families, ruining the lives of those left behind, and thus it is not invoked lightly.  With graduates from the classes of 2009 and 2010 now entering the worst job market anyone can remember, and competing with people a generation older for entry-level positions, the future clearly is bleak for them.  Coupled with a black swan environmental disaster that has profound implications for the long-term cost of oil and the growing sovereign debt default crisis, the makings of a double-dip recession are moving rapidly into place.

Even with the benefit of programs like Income-Based Repayment, the interest and principal of student loans will continue to grow for recent graduates.  Despite the program’s vaunted 10-year forgiveness feature for government and public interest employment, such jobs are extremely selective or nonexistent as state governments slash and burn various departments with layoffs, furloughs and forced attrition.  The social and egoistic cachet conferred by a college degree may also preclude graduates from seeking work in blue-collar or service fields; some may cite the desire to preserve themselves for a “career-track” position, while others’ pride may come in the way of taking a job that doesn’t make use of their credentials.  Even for those with the humility to seek whatever employment they can, employers may well reject these applicants for being flight risks destined to bolt for the first superior opportunity, or for lacking the requisite skills for the job.

If enough college graduates are pushed to the breaking point and decide life isn’t worth living, will anyone notice?  A governmental response assumes its knowledge, which is difficult if surviving family members refuse to talk about what happened and what they know.  For some families, this devastation may have already visited home for exactly the reason of crushing, inescapable student loan debt and crushed dreams.  But, like a tree falling in the woods, nobody can know a problem exists if it remains a hushed secret — however painful it is to keep.

Hopefully the state of education lending will never come to needing reform because of ended lives.  There are signs that this is already happening across the country, though, and the trend may only accelerate as economic malaise deepens, parental resources diminish, and opportunities for even the smartest among us become increasingly scarce.  Despite the emphasis to attend college from every angle, those who do and have done so are increasingly finding that the credentials they acquired at great expense aren’t as valuable as they were lead to believe.  This is the ultimate betrayal: People who are lionized for their accomplishment and knowledge are left to drop out of society in the most irreversible way possible.  More immediately, the discharge of these loans upon death affects the CDO-like securities stacked upon them; discharges above those actuarially anticipated when creating the instrument would lead to its unwinding, as well as the derivatives and options resting upon it.

As for what these reforms would be, making student loan debt dischargable in bankruptcy wouldn’t solve the whole problem.  It would, however, bring about several other realizations.  First, the cost of education in America has gotten out of control.  Second, the values of a generic college degree are oversold.  Additionally, not all institutions or degrees are created equally, and it is absurd that students from elite schools pay the same interest rate – to the extent undergraduates at elite schools have to take loans – as students from less rigorous institutions.  The same is true of major selection, as the value provided by a degree in biology or chemistry and the opportunities it provides is markedly different from one in communications, psychology or criminal justice.  These would be painful realizations, but ones that do not seem to be arising naturally.

However large or insignificant the problem of loan-induced helplessness is, it can’t be ascertained or addressed without ensuring it can be discussed.  Despite the shame and stigma people feel for not meeting their financial obligations, or the hurt a family may feel for the senseless loss of a loved one, hiding the experience under a bushel basket ensures that nobody can learn from it, potentially helping others and effecting real change.

http://randazza.wordpress.com/2010/05/11/would-mass-suicide-affect-student-loan-practices/

Low interest rates don't make $200,000 disappear so easily. Regulating the banks who are crushing the people who bailed them out isn't such a bad idea. Governments run your police and fire control, libraries and schools, highways and transportation and parks and recreation. The government; or the people of America; has a right to protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I can't imagine a country totally run by capitalism. It would be a joke.

[Rick]

America started out as a mostly Capitalistic country.  What happened was a situation that is much worse than what we have today.  If anything, I'd welcome more governmental oversight.  The reasons we have so many government departments today is not that someone thought the government involving itself in the everyday affairs of American commerce was the was to go, but the citizens of this great country needed to be protected from Capitalists.  If we didn't have oversight we would be back to where we were in the 19th century-eating tainted food, dealing with ever-growing monopolies that kept choices we have to a minimum, no infrastructure, no education, etc.  Our problems today aren't solely caused by the government, but more likely due to the lack of oversight of Capitalists by our government.

[Poe]

Please. The world economy was torn apart by a large amount of reckless financial decision-making by a whole lot of people. Did the banks play a part in that? Of course. Are they the sole demons in this morality play? No, by no means; there's plenty of blame to go around. They are simply an easy target because they are, in general, not popular. But the government, politicians from both parties, investors, securities ratings companies, activist groups, and, quite frankly, a significant segment of the population are also to blame.

As for the government takeover of the student loan program "punishing the banks," I doubt the studen loan business is all that lucrative to most banks. I mean, they are getting about 6-7% on loans. That's not bad income, but it's not exactly anything any reasonable person would categorize as profiteering or gouging. The punishment of banks was initiated with the new fees and penalties that were levied on the large banks a few months ago -- even those banks that didn't need, didn't want and didn't *take* any of the bailout money. The takeover of the student-loan program is nothing more than another power-grab by the Administration. Monopolies used to be considered  bad things; guess if it's the government doing the monopolizing it's okay, though, huh? Afterall, look at how well they've run their other monopolies.

Governments cannot monopolize, they socialize.  The US government has run many programs extremely well.  During the Y2K scare there was worry that the SSA might fail to deliver checks on time FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER!  That's pretty incredible if you consider the scale.

The US government has run the military pretty well compared to other countries.

Private industry has failed in so many areas that it's not worth it to list them all.  But certainly healthcare would be at or near the top.

Want to see power hungry?

[RIVERS]

Governments cannot monopolize, they socialize.  The US government has run many programs extremely well.  During the Y2K scare there was worry that the SSA might fail to deliver checks on time FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER!  That's pretty incredible if you consider the scale.

The US government has run the military pretty well compared to other countries.

Private industry has failed in so many areas that it's not worth it to list them all.  But certainly healthcare would be at or near the top.

Want to see power hungry?

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That is incredibly naive.

The only thing Government does right is hire unproductive , non-visionary people, and them offer them wages that are higher than the public sector, and pensions and pay-plans that are putting cities and local municipalities on the verge of bankruptcy.

To claim anything different is a show of ignorance.

Current pension and benefit plans are something many cities in our Country can't handle.

The real only increase in jobs in the past year have been Government employees.

I don't work my ass off to fund Government employees payrolls and pensions...it should be the opposite.

This is BULLSHIT.

[RIVERS]

Next time you see 4 guys standing around a hole in the ground, making 45K a year with a big fat pension?...remember that.

[Poe]

That is incredibly naive.

The only thing Government does right is hire unproductive , non-visionary people, and them offer them wages that are higher than the public sector, and pensions and pay-plans that are putting cities and local municipalities on the verge of bankruptcy.

To claim anything different is a show of ignorance.

Current pension and benefit plans are something many cities in our Country can't handle.

The real only increase in jobs in the past year have been Government employees.

I don't work my ass off to fund Government employees payrolls and pensions...it should be the opposite.

This is BULLSHIT.

And you who lives in California would know better than me who works in Washington, DC, right?  You have no idea what you're talking about.  As usual, you're parroting opinions you've heard from others.

[RIVERS]

And you who lives in California would know better than me who works in Washington, DC, right?  You have no idea what you're talking about.  As usual, you're parroting opinions you've heard from others.

Not at all, I'm not a parrot.

While I'll admit I don't follow the mechanics of Your city?...I guarantee they are similar.  Municipal workers who negotiated fat contracts and 'out' clauses. Elected officials (voted in or vetted in by labor unions) who trade votes for a nice fat pension for constituants.

It makes me ill, sick to my stomach.

Then some idiot like you comes along and seems to have no problem with it.

What a joke.

[Poe]

My parents were civil servants, some of the hardest working people I've ever known.  Most of their friends were civil servants, all extremely hard working, conscientious workers.

Remember "neither rain nor", what happened to that?  Nowadays the post office closes if it snows hard enough.  What changed?  Oh yeah, rural delivery is now private and the work ethic fell with it.  Too bad.